/ Re: The Forgotten Apostle-1 / 6 Dec 2000 / Newsgroups > alt.religion.christian.biblestudy, alt.bible.prophecy /
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>> textman wrote: The Forgotten Apostle-1 <snipsome> Therefore: any attempt to study the Faith without
>> constant recourse to the full sweep of the millennia-long story of the People of God is surely doomed to fail.
>> In the same way, it is impossible to fully understand the Sacred Text without constant recourse to the
>> histories of the ancient Hebrews, the Jewish people's (Palestine and Diaspora),
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> On 3Dec Besq wrote: Judah is only one tribe of the original Israel. The diaspora involved the other tribes,
> Judah returned to Israel while the other tribes were "lost", disappeared. The New Testament mentions the
> "12" tribes, not just Judah. Further, when Jacob gave the birthright blessings to Joseph's two sons, and
> told of future things, he gave those two sons the name "Israel".
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So the name 'Israel' can refer to various things? ... Interesting.
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> B: While the Jews and the rcc would like the world to believe the lost tribes no longer exist,
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There is little in the way of evidence to discourage this notion.
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> B: the New Testament says plainly that they do and most prophecy is about them, not Judah. Before the
> "diaspora" the Jews lay claim to, Israel had divided, ten tribes in the north were the Kingdom of Israel, the
> three in the south were the Kingdom of Judah.
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Ten plus three equal twelve? ... 10+3=12 ?! ... :(
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> Judah was allowed to return to their land,
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God moved the King of Persia to be a good and gracious king!
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> the lost tribes were not.
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They were "amalgamated", not "lost" in the technical sense.
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> B: Any "history" that doesn't address this is not a complete history. There is a difference between Israel
> the state (Judah) and Israel the people (two of the lost tribes).
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textman answers: Dear Besq, you are quite right to point out that the history of the Faith includes some regard for the so-called "lost-tribes". The NT suggests that 'Israel' now includes all manner of believers (those who recognize Jesus of Nazareth as the promised Messiah). And since Christ accepts both Gentiles and Jews, all the 'lost tribes' now have the opportunity to return again to the New-Israel, to the new People of God who have the Torah written in their hearts (as the prophet Jeremiah foretold). In that sense the history of the lost-tribes is finished and completed within the continuous
unfolding of the Kingdom of God ... Amen!
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However, let us not forget that this 'Diaspora' happened long before the age of Christ. As to the authors of the NT, when they talk about the 'Dispersion' it is unlikely that they are always referring to the ancient events you speak of. The fact of the matter is that the story of the Faith knows not one 'diaspora', but two; and it is this second (smaller) dispersion that had the greater impact on the genesis and nature of the soon-to-be world-religion called Christianity.
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For those who would like to know more about this, please stay tuned to this thread, as I will *most* certainly have more to say in regards to this particular topic!
P.S. Ask not what the Lord can do for you ... But ask rather what you can do for the Lord!
/ Re: The Forgotten Apostle-1 / Forum > TheologyOnLine - Bible Study / 10 Dec 2000 /
/ Newsgroups > alt.religion.christian.biblestudy, alt.bible.prophecy /
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"And no one pours new wine into old wineskins.
Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins,
and both the wine and the skins will be destroyed.
But new wine is poured into new skins."
-- Mark 2:22/NETbible
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>> erasmian wrote: <snip> Indeed the Whore of Babylon had also done similar adjustments to
>> ... the ending of Hebrews. <snip>
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> On 9Dec stainless replied: Could you provide some evidence of this and show which portions you
> think changed? In another thread perhaps?
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erasmian answers: Dear stainless, I could and have and do provide ample evidence of this in another thread (as you surmised). If you wish to review the pertinent epistle regarding the ending of Hebrews, please proceed to the following URL: https://cybrwurm.tripod.com/pro2k/pr8.htm
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> Waiting for Part 5... -- stainless
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Part five is coming fast, and I haven't even finished editing and polishing the last two chapters yet! THEN I gotta make a bunch of hardcopies of the complete cycle, punch holes in them all, and clip them in the report-covers (suitably labeled with the title, of course) SO that I can pass them around to friends and family as Christmas presents ... LOL ... It's the gift that just keeps on giving! ... Hey; aren't I just the most generous and thoughtful cyber-prophet you ever did see? :)
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> [The Bible] "was inspired by God but writen down by humans according to their understanding of God's will
> ... [the Bible] is the testimony of a formative experience ... a continual source book, filled with inspirational
> passages and practical guidelines ...
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I agree with the good rabbi that the Bible is testimony, practical and inspirational, but surely it is *also* much more than that! And surely it is an insult to the honor of all of our faith-forefathers to simply dismiss the Word of God by reducing it to the category of 'testimony'. Frankly, I don't think that's at all fair to the Text :(
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> However, it is still a human book ... open to challenge and revision, and subject to becoming outdated in parts."
> - Based on the words of Rabbi Jonathan Romain in his book 'Faith and Practice: A Guide to Reform Judaism Today'
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Interesting quote, stainless. Personally, I would emphasize that some very basic editing badly *needs* to be done on the texts first (on both the OT and the NT) BEFORE we get all saucy and ambitious about revisions. As to the latter, the first "revision" should be to include 1Clement (suitably edited (ie.fixed) *and* renamed, of course) among the so-called 'catholic epistles'.
More on the Cyber-Prophet's Reason-for-Being
/ Re: The Forgotten Apostle-1 / Forum > TheologyOnLine - Bible Study / 16 Dec 2000 /
/ Newsgroups > alt.religion.christian.biblestudy, alt.bible.prophecy /
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"You have not seen him, but you love him.
You do not see him now, but you believe in him;
And so you rejoice with an indescribable and glorious joy,
Because you are attaining the goal of your faith:
The salvation of your souls." -- 1Peter 1:8-9/NETbible
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> On Dec15 Guardian wrote: Just out of curiousity,
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erasmian answers: Dear Guardian, don't you really mean "curiosity"? :D
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> but WHAT do you do for a living?
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If you want to know what I do by way of smooching Mammon's big furry backside, Sir Guardian, why don't you just come right out and say so, instead of promptly engaging us in all this silly beating-around-the-bush type of behavior? :)
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> Or is this your living?
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This is my life in the Lord; IF *that's* what you mean? It's what He commands of my otherwise worthless and useless existence, you see. It's my prayer, my praise, my hope, my glory, my peace, my joy, my thanksgiving unto the Father of Lights. Amen! ... And *most* of the time it's all somehow managed according to his good Providence, and through the mysterious graces of the Encourager. For those of you who may not already know it, this is what it means to be a prophet
(whether Bronze Age or Post-Modern)!
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> Cause to do an exacting work like this, I'd say it take a better part of a year at least (so I assume)
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You assume incorrectly, herr Guardian. This particular series-epistle took about a month or two from start to finish. But what you don't see so readily is the many years of researching, reading, and reflecting upon the scriptures (and its copious secondary literature) that lay behind my frenzied scribbling. Out of all that 'spinning of the wheel' came forth the basic groundwork for developing a hermeneutical methodology that allows the Reader to peer - be it ever so tentatively -
through nineteen centuries (more or less) of this ubiquitous blue-glowing fog of pious stupidity that surrounds the Bible so as to distort and corrupt our common perception of (and appreciation for) the meaning and richness of the sacred texts!
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> also, where can I find info on the 'Muratorian Fragment'?
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I dunno. Have you tried some of the many available search-engines that are forever hanging around on the Net?
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> Thnxs for ya' time.
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No problemo.
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> A person convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
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In other words, that person is not *really* convinced; owing to an unquenchable desire to never-ever abandon his own most-cherished beliefs and beloved opinions (which he "knows" to be right, of course), even when the truth of things is staring him in the face already! Thus if the Reader chooses to decline the Spirit's graceful offering of the Word of God as set forth by the ever-offensive one, then that is entirely his own decision according to the darkness of his liking (for the Lord and I have surely done our part).
P.S. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy he gave us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead; that is, into an inheritance imperishable, undefiled, and unfading. It is reserved in heaven for you, who by God's power are protected through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." -- 1Peter 1:3-5 / NETbible
/ Re: The Forgotten Apostle / Forum > TheologyOnLine - Bible Study / 8 Jan 2001 /
/ Newsgroups > alt.religion.christian.biblestudy, alt.bible.prophecy /
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> On 6Jan geralduk wrote: History is one thing faith is another! knowing church history is good, but it is not 'The Faith'!
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erasmian answers: Dear geralduk, I never said it was. But I did say that church-history is a big *and* important part of the Faith. So much so, in fact, that ignorance of church-history IS ignorance of the Faith. This is not to say that church-history and the Faith are one and the same, only that they cannot be separated. In the same way, church-history is surely an important ingredient within the early Christian scriptures (being, as it were, built into the very fabric of the
texts), such that no reader can possibly understand the Greek texts without a goodly knowledge of the actual faith-life context out of which the authors (and their texts) emerged.
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> I THINK WE SHOULD NOT STUDY THE FAITH but use our faith and grow in it if be it is THE faith and NOT a faith.
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How can anyone grow in the Faith by disconnecting their brain (ie. refusing to study the Faith), and then proceeding to ignore the roots of our Faith in concrete historical realities?
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Doesn't make much sense to me ... :(
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> its a wonder and i love it, that real Christianity is the only religion rooted in history, ie reality!
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Not too many believers today seem to appreciate it all that much; judging from the grossly uncritical, pre-Enlightenment, *and* anti-historical way that they *usually* read the scriptures, I mean.
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> and i love history but you will not get a true understanding of history without reading scripture.
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My dear geralduk, I couldn't possibly agree more! Indeed, my understanding of early church-history is based upon the evidence provided by and through the sacred texts; and *that* is why my exegesis is so vastly different from all the crap that usually passes for biblical commentary in this supposedly enlightened information-age.
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> if you understand that past you will understand the present and if you understand the present
> you'll understand what's to come.
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You speak from personal experience, do you? :)
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What I understand about the past, present, and future of the Faith is that the quality of the faith-life of the People of God goes through recurrent cycles of growth and decay. These movements of spiritual ups and downs often take decades and generations, and are usually linked to people, events, and social processes in the world at large. So once again we see that a deep knowledge of church-history as a whole is essential to any strong and healthy faith-life that wishes to remain in touch with its authentic roots, and its most truly apostolic (ie. prophetic) expressions and manifestations!